gogo956 napísal: ---
Hughito, vysvetli, ked je socik taky uzasny, preco v sucasnej dobe vpodstate nikde nevznika a ked aj vznikne tak iba zivori?

gogo956 napísal:Ale verim ze v buducnosti vdaka nepredstavitelnemu technolopgickemu pokroku ktory je dnes mimoramec nasho pochopenia, sa aj bezni ludia z nasho pohladu budu mat tak dobre,ze to nakoniec bude lepsie ako by mali vsetky teoreticke vymozenosti socializmu

gogo956 napísal:ano,to je tu oblubena vyhovorka tunajsich ultralaviciarov- ze za vsetkym zlyhanim socializmu su zli kapitalisti ktori im "podrazaju nohy". A teraz poviem- ano,do urcitej miery to je pravda. Preco? Pretoze najrpv niekomu nieco zoberu- zostatnia,takze je pochopitelne ze hned na zaciatku si vytvoria nepriatelov a potom sa cuduju. Ale to nic nemeni na tom, ze aj bez toho by socializmus dlhodobo nevedel fungovat.
Jeden z hlavnych dovodov je, tiez velakrat spominane, "Nemožnosť ekonomickej kalkulácie v socializme"
blizsienaprtu https://www.konzervativizmus.sk/upload/ ... J_2017.pdf

Ale verim ze v buducnosti vdaka nepredstavitelnemu technolopgickemu pokroku ktory je dnes mimoramec nasho pochopenia, sa aj bezni ludia z nasho pohladu budu mat tak dobre,ze to nakoniec bude lepsie ako by mali vsetky teoreticke vymozenosti socializmu..
Plne robotizovane tovarne budu schopne vyrabat akykolvek tovar 24hodin bez prestavky za zlomok dnesnych nakladov a este dalej v buducnosti, budeme vediet vytvarat cokolvek z cohokolvek- manipulacia a tvorba tovarov iba zo samotnych atomov.

jackb napísal: v tomto som skepticky. mozno aj kvoli poslednej kapitoly Sapiens: ku najpokrokovejsim technologiam veducim az ku amortalite budu mat pristup len najbohatsi a tak uz nebude rovnosti ani pred smrtou.

gogo956 napísal:Ale verim ze v buducnosti vdaka nepredstavitelnemu technolopgickemu pokroku ktory je dnes mimoramec nasho pochopenia, sa aj bezni ludia z nasho pohladu budu mat tak dobre,ze to nakoniec bude lepsie ako by mali vsetky teoreticke vymozenosti socializmu..
Plne robotizovane tovarne budu schopne vyrabat akykolvek tovar 24hodin bez prestavky za zlomok dnesnych nakladov a este dalej v buducnosti, budeme vediet vytvarat cokolvek z cohokolvek- manipulacia a tvorba tovarov iba zo samotnych atomov.

The scene is Kentish Town, London, February 1858, sometime around 4am. Marx is a wanted man in Germany and is hard at work scribbling thought-experiments and notes-to-self. When they finally get to see what Marx is writing on this night, the left intellectuals of the 1960s will admit that it “challenges every serious interpretation of Marx yet conceived”. It is called “The Fragment on Machines”.

In the “Fragment” Marx imagines an economy in which the main role of machines is to produce, and the main role of people is to supervise them. He was clear that, in such an economy, the main productive force would be information. The productive power of such machines as the automated cotton-spinning machine, the telegraph and the steam locomotive did not depend on the amount of labour it took to produce them but on the state of social knowledge. Organisation and knowledge, in other words, made a bigger contribution to productive power than the work of making and running the machines.

Given what Marxism was to become – a theory of exploitation based on the theft of labour time – this is a revolutionary statement. It suggests that, once knowledge becomes a productive force in its own right, outweighing the actual labour spent creating a machine, the big question becomes not one of “wages versus profits” but who controls what Marx called the “power of knowledge”.

In an economy where machines do most of the work, the nature of the knowledge locked inside the machines must, he writes, be “social”. In a final late-night thought experiment Marx imagined the end point of this trajectory: the creation of an “ideal machine”, which lasts forever and costs nothing. A machine that could be built for nothing would, he said, add no value at all to the production process and rapidly, over several accounting periods, reduce the price, profit and labour costs of everything else it touched.

Once you understand that information is physical, and that software is a machine, and that storage, bandwidth and processing power are collapsing in price at exponential rates, the value of Marx’s thinking becomes clear. We are surrounded by machines that cost nothing and could, if we wanted them to, last forever.

gogo956 napísal:
- to nevieme, v kazdom pripade to nedava logiku a nepotvrdzuje to ani historia. Argumenty?

jackb napísal:ja som mal Sapiens v ramci klubu, kedy sa dostanem ku Homo deus neviem.
pochopil som, ze argumentom pre non-mainstreamove vyuzivanie napr. genovej terapie na nekonecne predlzovanie zivota je jej cena. preto podla neho bude dostupna len najbohatsim.

jackb napísal:to bude platit pre vacsinu populacie sveta, ktora zije juznejsie a je chudobnejsia.