M4jk1:-) napísal:gogo: Butora, Gal, Zajac, Budaj a Havel židia čo prezliekajú kabát jak sa im to hodí, len aby boli pri moci a tvorili verejnú mienku a slovanov mali ako pracovnú silu, nie ďakujem .

M4jk1:-) napísal:gogo: Butora, Gal, Zajac, Budaj a Havel židia čo prezliekajú kabát jak sa im to hodí, len aby boli pri moci a tvorili verejnú mienku a slovanov mali ako pracovnú silu, nie ďakujem .

In this particular debate I would support the Arch Getty position. You are talking about a lot lower numbers, and also most of the deaths Stalin is responsible for are inadvertent, in the sense that they are a byproduct of the policy he pursues, rather than part of a deliberate scheme. There’s a colleague of mine in the UK, Mark Harrison, he makes a distinction between Stalin as a mass murderer, and Stalin as a man-slaughterer. The difference is Stalin is a mass man-slaughterer. He is responsible for the deaths of millions of people, but most of that casualty toll is an indirect result of policy, rather than a part of deliberate design.

For me the bottom line, Stalin, unlike Hitler, is not genocidal. He’s not a racist. Stalin has people killed for political and ideological reasons because he sees them as a threat to the Soviet system and also to his regime, which he sees as being equivalent to the Soviet system.

I also think that, unlike Hitler, Stalin was a utopian and idealist. The mass violence he pursued was directed toward a utopian end, i.e. he saw it as being part of the necessary historical process leading to the perfect society. So I think there are fundamental differences between Hitler and Stalin in terms of their aims and intent, but also in practical terms in what is it that they actually do.

I am not, in distinguishing between Hitler and Stalin, saying that I see Stalin as the lesser evil, so to speak. I am not making excuses for Stalin. I am not saying there isn’t a critique that can be made of his politics and his ideology and its consequences--which are quite devastating particularly as far as the number of people who died as a result. Having said that, I think it’s a different critique and of a different order than the critique one would make of Hitler and the Nazis.

TK1991 napísal:Len tak mi napada: Pozna z vas niekto nejakych socialistov ktori su uspesni a bohati? Najlepsie niekoho znamejsieho o ktorom sa da nieco dostudovat viac.

hughito napísal:K bohatstvu sa dostane jedine cez vykorisťovanie iných ľudí.

hughito napísal: Socialisti nechcú byť "úspešní a bohatí" v tom takom buržoáznom zmysle, v akom si to predstavuješ. Hlavne teda nie "bohatí." K bohatstvu sa dostane jedine cez vykorisťovanie iných ľudí. S úspechom to je zložitejšie, ide o čisto subjektívnu záležitosť.